Talk:Possession Island (Queensland)

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James Cook's claim of possession

Hello all

I have removed a great deal of speculative and controversial material which I don't think has a place in a factual article on Possession Island. There is abundant primary source material which supports the generally accepted view that Cook claimed the East Coast of New Holland for Great Britain at Possession Island on 22 August 1770. Very happy to discuss. --Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:08, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 31 January 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawing without prejudice. The conventions and guidelines seem to be applied unevenly in articles in Australia, and seems to be a bit ambiguous about what part of policy applies to what (i.e. what does "natural features" include). ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 05:06, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Possession Island (Queensland) → Possession Island, Queensland – Per WP:NCAUST and general convention. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 10:37, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The general convention seems unclear here. For example, Category:Islands of Queensland currently seems to have a mixture of both comma and parenthetical disambiguation titles. Category:Islands of Victoria (Australia) on the other hand primarily only has parenthetical disambiguation titles. The general WP:PLACEDAB guideline states, "With natural features, the tag normally appears in parentheses ... specific pre-existing national conventions may take precedence though", which is why most islands in other counties primarily use a parenthetical disambiguation title. WP:NCAUST does not directly address natural features such as islands -- only settlements, local government areas, and "Localities (other than suburbs) and places such as train stations, parks, etc." but by "by reference to city rather than state". Zzyzx11 (talk) 11:55, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Zzyzx11: Just noting that the naming conventions seems to refer to "natural features" as only rivers, lakes and mountains (WP:NCPLACE#Natural_features), not islands. With that definition, I think the first naming principle on WP:PLACEDAB is relevant: In some cases, including most towns in the United States, the most appropriate title includes the non-parenthesized state name as a tag, even when it is not needed for disambiguation. Also, Possession Island is a national park, and WP:NCAUST seemingly supports using comma disambiguation for them. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 03:47, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Natural features" is more than just rivers, lakes and mountains, so it is only natural that people will just refer back to the general WP:PLACEDAB guidelines. The first naming principle only says "In some cases", but the "With natural features" principle is more specific. Thus, you also get articles like Santa Catalina Island (California), Columbia Island (New York) and Rock Island (Wisconsin). Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:59, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Zzyzx11: I still think WP:PLACEDAB refers to "Natural features" as rivers, lakes and mountains based on what projects it links to under #Natural_features, but I would also agree that an island would commonly be included. Probably going to just withdraw this since I don't really feel as though there's enough of a convention for places in Queensland/Australia, but also because I don't really see any point in keeping this dragging on. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 05:04, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ItsPugle and Zzyzx11, it might be worth posting this on the Aus noticeboard for clarity from someone with more experience in place names, but I think that I once read somewhere that geographical features take parentheses rather than comma (although in the case of Flinders Island (disambiguation), I'm not sure why the Tasmanian one has to be a primary topic). Laterthanyouthink (talk) 12:04, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That is why I would lean to oppose, to reflect the general WP:PLACEDAB guideline on natural features such as islands when WP:NCAUST is silent on the matter. Zzyzx11 (talk) 12:29, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support as long as its relatively conventional for Australia. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:02, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Geographic features generally take parenthetical disambiguation, while settlements take commas. This holds true for Australia, where I see only about a half dozen exceptions, mostly in Queensland and NSW. This is a good distinction to maintain consistently throughout WP. Station1 (talk) 06:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. An island is a geographic feature, and this article is not named as the national park (which includes another island. Most Australian articles I've seen seem to stick to this convention. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 04:09, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

21 August 1770 or 22 August 1770

When did Cook land on Possession Island and claim Eastern Australia for the British Empire? Was it on 21 August or 22 August? I am finding some sources which say the first and others which say the second and I don't know which is more accurate. Mr248 (talk) 04:52, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

22 August is correct. My understanding is that one needs to adjust for Cook's use of British naval dating and his crossing of the International Date Line. His journals state that the claim of possession took place at 4 pm on 22 August 1770. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 11:09, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]